For many of the early years of our marriage and family we lived in tight quarters that required a lot of diligence around the stuff we brought into our home. When I reflect on that, I realize I learned valuable lessons on organizing, purging, and being intentional about what we surround ourselves with. Those methods continue to shape my perspective even as our family and living space grows.
Seeking guidance on how to apply more minimalist principles to everyday life, I invited Diane Boden, author and podcaster of Minimalist Moms, to join the conversation. Diane shares her insightful journey to minimalism, emphasizing the importance of living with intention and finding freedom in simplicity. Together, we explore deep principles and practical tips that can help anyone create a more intentional and fulfilling lifestyle, even for those who may not fit the traditional minimalist mold.
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TRANSCRIPT
Monica Packer: Diane Boden, welcome to About Progress.
Diane Boden: Oh, thanks so much for having me, Monica. I’m excited to chat with you.
Monica Packer: I’ve been wanting you on the show forever. And it’s to talk about something that I have personally felt really drawn to, I think, especially maybe five ish years ago.
I feel like minimalism was all the rage. Like everyone was talking about it.
There were documentaries, several full podcasts, just devoted to minimalism and this movement. And you are a part of that movement in your own way as a minimalist mom. And that’s your podcast. You’ve written a book, like all these good things. And it doesn’t seem like it’s going anywhere, but my goal for this conversation today is to help women. Find what minimalist principles will help them in their everyday life. So maybe they don’t have to be a black and white minimalist, but there are things we can learn from this. So let’s start with how you found this movement, why you were drawn to it and how it’s changed your life.
Diane Boden: Yes, absolutely. I do want to say first and foremost that minimalism is a tool. I think like you said, it doesn’t have to be so black and white. Um, although my walls in our new home are pretty bare and sparse, not necessarily my intention longterm. And I also have three children, so I don’t have. Uh, just, uh, empty rooms all throughout my home.
Like we absolutely have the thing. So I don’t want people to hear here at the beginning, the word minimalism and just automatically tune out because it really is just a tool of intentionality for how we can live with less, but have an abundance of freedom and joy and peace and time, like there’s so much I’ve gained with becoming a quote unquote minimalist, really just living intentionally.
So I just want to set the conversation off in that way. But I discovered minimalism back in. I don’t know. Maybe let’s see here. My husband and I have been married for 13 years. So we’ll say for about 10 years, I have been practicing this life of less. And my husband and I were in my parents basement looking for something. And he turned to me and said, look at all of these things that are now in boxes that were once your dad’s hard earned working hours. And he said, For some reason, that was just a light bulb moment for me of what have I been working towards? What have I been working for? I felt like I had been working for all the tangible things, the new clothing, always the latest iPhone, anything that I wanted, really all the new and shiny things. Especially prior to getting married, my husband kind of like started helping me budget a lot more when we got married, but it just, I really didn’t have anything to show for it. I was left. dissatisfied. And again, we didn’t really have a conversation in that moment. It was just, uh, an aha moment of, I want to start being more intentional about the fact that time is money, money is time. And that I don’t want a basement one day filled to the brim of things that I no longer use. And I always want to not throw my parents completely under the bus because obviously we had a vibrant, rich childhood. Yes. Full of things. But also I think there’s something to be said about holding onto those things after they’ve overstayed their welcome. And so that was something to start digging deeper into as I evolved as a minimalist. But yeah, I would say it was just that moment that got me thinking about intentionality and then flash forward a handful of years later, you’re right. The minimalist, those two guys became a thing. Okay. And.
A girlfriend and I from a mops group, which is mothers, the preschoolers, I saw that she had wanted to start a podcast.
I did too. We’re like, what do we have in common? She was living in a ginormous house at the time. I was living in 800 square feet, but we both had this common theme of living with intention and with less. So we’re like, Oh, this could be like a great conversation to have on a podcast. Let’s see what happens. She ended up stepping away. I kind of took it over and made it more interview based. And I think. The content speaks for itself. And it’s not necessarily me. It’s just, I’m talking to all of these various people’s people from all different walks of life, but they all have this common thread of, I want to live with intention and fill in the blank area.
So that was my journey into it. Sorry. It was a little long winded, but I wanted to give you the full background.
Monica Packer: no, I love the background. I love learning from people’s stories. I think especially that’s how I can relate to something that maybe I previously didn’t think I could relate to, especially when I think of maybe what a stereotypical vision of a minimalist would look like, and then I think, Oh, no, wait, no, I want that too.
I, I want to live more intentionally. I want to have what actually matters in my home.
I do want to hear more about the process of. Of what that kind of looked like tangibly in your life, you know, how did, how did it change the way you lived? Um, how did it change what you brought into your home? And I know this has been several years, so there’s probably been several phases and iterations of this, but what does that look like for you?
Diane Boden: Yeah, so I think in certain ways we were more frugal than minimalist at the very beginning just because we got married so young and I was still in college. I wasn’t exactly sure what was going to happen and then we had our daughter and so Frugality isn’t minimalism. I’ve learned that because there are a lot of people that are frugal, but they tend to hold onto their things. So yes, it started out with frugality of just being more disciplined about what we were spending, but again with clothing. I was really into clothing. So that was somewhat where I started of just saying, do I even wear all of these things that I own and why am I owning them? And. Over the years assessing where my value comes from, because I think my identity and my value was in my appearance and the things that I was wearing. And when I really dug deeper into that, I was able to let go a little bit easier. And I think the same thing has gone
for my things of saying, Look, my husband and I are on a certain type of budget and my, uh, my hospitality or my value doesn’t come from what we have in our home to offer you.
It comes from us and the relationship that we are hopefully mutually offering one another. And so I would say in certain ways, it didn’t have to do with the things as kind of the inner, the deeper work of the
motivation to keeping the things, um, which is kind of cool, but, um, Yeah, I think that things just kind of followed as I started doing some of this mental work.
Monica Packer: Well, that’s what I’d love to hear because that makes more sense to me and also gives us the ability to do it based off of our values. So that means what we choose to keep is more in alignment with what we cherish and what we value and, let it be the same way for other people, even if that looks different.
So let’s, let’s talk about women who may. I think that living like a minimalist would be unrealistic, but there’s still like a, I’m talking about stereotypical kind. And
I love that the way you talked about that is so different, the intentional version of it. So let’s say they’re drawn to that version. Oh, I want to live a life with more intention.
So let’s go principles then what are some minimalist principles that you think all moms can adopt?
Diane Boden: So some of the principles that I live by when it comes to minimalism, like I said, it is a tool, but there are some little like basic mantras that I try and buy when it comes to minimalism. One is quality over quantity. I always have had kind of bougie taste and I realized Okay. You can’t like spend all the money that you want and have all these clothes. And again, nothing to show for it in your bank account. Cause I’d rather put my intention towards, uh, experiences, which people over things, experiences over things is another thing, but that whole quality of our quantity, I’d rather have a nice sweater that lasts me. Many, many, many years versus going to target and having to replace that sweater that pills after one year and just doesn’t look as nice. I’d rather invest up front. And I know that’s always hard for people because they’re like, well, this cost just seems high for right now. And I don’t necessarily have that in the budget. I don’t really either. I love Poshmark. I love Facebook marketplace. I love
going to secondhand shops. Most of my clothing at
Monica Packer: for highlighting that.
Diane Boden: Yeah, most of my clothing at this point is secondhand and I actually thrive on finding exciting, deals. I love to be able to
say like, this was secondhand and I love this outfit. So the quality over quantity is one that I try and live by. Um, I love living by kind of one in, one out. So if I do get something new, just saying something else has to go. So I only have a certain amount of hangers. Once they’re filled, it’s like, okay, we’re not going to buy any more hangers. It’s time to assess and get rid of something. Some people might think this is overthought or rigid, but it just kind of helps me stay in line and stay with my values because it’s, I’ve seen the benefit again, and the freedom of doing that.
And I will say. If you have a certain amount of hangers in your closet, I pretty much always love what I’m wearing because I’ve whittled my wardrobe down to the
things that look good on me. And if something doesn’t, even every time that I’m doing laundry, I’m going through and just kind of assessing, okay, I have my kids grown out of this.
Has this like overstayed its welcome? Do I still wear this? And I have a box in my laundry space that it just goes into that donation bin. So I can easily just have it removed. So again, these little things that we’re just putting in our day to day, We might not be like those minimalist guys, or we might not be like Marie condo for people that are familiar, but we are just trying to be intentional with the things that we’re bringing in the other thing.
I don’t know if this is a principle, but it’s just something I like to think about that acquisition cycle. So stopping the clutter before it comes in the door. And we have to be intentional about that walking by that dollar spot at target or making all of our target purchases or the majority of them order ahead pickup purchases as opposed to walking through. And I mean, we don’t have to open the can of worms of marketers and how they want to suck you into every new thing every time you walk through a target, but you’re never going to be able to purchase everything that is so shiny to you in that store.
So once you start kind of switching your perspective of what their game is, it kind of helps you to be more strategic and say, I don’t, I don’t want to be a pawn in this bigger game. Like, I have enough. I’m content. I’m gonna, uh, like, focus on gratitude for the things that I do have. If I want something, I can think about it long term.
Sorry, now I’m going into, like, all the processes. But these are just kind of the
ways that I think now. I just think this way. And, uh, Again, this doesn’t necessarily happen overnight. This is me putting in some effort and some thought into it, but just these little mantras, which is what I wrote about in my book.
They’re all just little mantras to like think about throughout the day. I mean, don’t even buy the book, get it from the library. Um, but yeah, uh, one last one that’s really helpful is the one second rule. So at the end of my day, I just told you, it’s been a really long day. It’s nine o’clock here in Ohio and I’m going to go to bed after this, but I have been picking out up throughout my day by the one minute rule.
So if I have something that I can do within a minute or so, I just take care of it right then and there. So that doesn’t build for the end of my day because right now I’m too tired, but I don’t also want to go down to a sink full of dishes in the morning, but it’s like, I don’t have to do that because I, Kept up with it all day.
I’ve hung up the clothes back in the closet. I’ve hung up the jackets. I’ve put the shoes away. Um, just kind of those little tidying things. And again, don’t beat yourself up if you can’t do all of this at once. It’s just slowly building and gaining that momentum.
Monica Packer: I especially love that last bit there because I think when we’re drawn to something like this, we then get overwhelmed by the sheer number of things we have to go through to get to that place where we feel like what we have is Is an alignment with who we are and how we want to live our lives. So let’s not talk to the people who are in that place a bit.
And they want to, they want to follow through more. They want to use these principles, but they are also kind of feeling stuck with the tangible side of it. Like, how do I actually do this? Then if I do have like an entire space, even if it’s just a big room to go through, how do I do this?
Diane Boden: Uh, the best tip that I have here and I think anyone that is practicing in this realm would tell you the same thing is that you need to pull everything out and assess what you have. But I always do say start in the bathroom because it’s the least sentimental place in your entire home, typically. Uh, and
so it’s easier to kind of go through there and navigate what you have, pulling everything out. And even setting a time limit on it and saying for 30 days, I’m going to live without things on my countertop in the bathroom or even artwork on the wall in my bathroom. I’m going to keep it simple and functional. And then I’ll slowly add back in the things that I need and want and enjoy. Like, I don’t think minimalism
also is just this bare thing that we don’t enjoy the homes that we’re creating or the life that we’re, we’re living. I am really into art and I actually have a huge intention of having. Tons of art over one wall downstairs.
That doesn’t seem very minimalist. It’s actually probably the opposite, but art brings me joy. So that’s why I’m going to do that.
That’s total side note. So when you are going into those
Monica Packer: I love that. Mm.
Diane Boden: when you are going into those spaces, pull everything out and assess what you have. I think you’ll know right away the things that you’re using regularly. Um, and then maybe have a box for what’s in limbo, what’s in, Like maybe I’m going to use it, but maybe not. And then you have the trash and the things, you know, you’re never going to use or don’t use. And I think a lot of this too, as I’ve said, I’ve had to put in some work mentally to say, and to get to know myself to say, what is rational?
What is true? What have my habits been not living for my future self, not living for my past self, living for myself now, because. Oftentimes we get into habits that are much harder to change and I don’t want to be living for that future self. I want to live through who I am now. I can have goals and I think that’s important.
You talk about that on your show, like how to change and these processes. But I best want to set myself up for success now to, like give myself that self care to give myself that comfort for the now. And so sometimes, We might not like what we’re facing and we might not like the truths about right now And I think that’s a great starting point to say, you know, it’s okay like time is going to pass Anyways, just take slow steps and and allow yourself to make a little bit of progress But like it’s totally okay.
If you don’t like it at least you’re noting it at least you’re aware of that now So, I don’t know I have a really like gentle approach when it comes to it to just say like It’s okay if you are living in a like almost hoarder type home. Just taking note is a step in the right direction. Like you’ve taken notice and I think that’s a great place to start.
Monica Packer: Yeah. That awareness is true with anything, you know,
just being able to better notice and, and what comes from a deep, more deeply, I think is what’s going to help you maintain things more longterm, even though it’s not fun, but that’s why you start with just the noticing. So that way you’re not having to go full throttle.
Well, okay. I love this, you know, putting things out and just kind of measuring them thing by thing. And I think starting with a smaller when like a small wind space, like the bathroom
is, is a really. Good tip, especially because it can give you some of that skill set and also that confidence. Like, I actually can do this
and I’m beginning to know myself better.
So when you first began to do this, did you have like a whole home to go through or have you ever been in that position?
Diane Boden: So at the time that when my husband and I were first married, we had about 800 square feet we were working with. So I didn’t even have a front closet in the front of our house. So we weren’t working with a ton of space, but it was not long after that him and I got married that I did have one of my acquaintances from work. She was a little harsh and as I was going through my closet, because I think sometimes if your husband’s going through your closet with you, um, They may not want to offend you. Oh, that looks great on you, honey.
But I invited someone over that I actually didn’t know very well to go through my closet with me.
And so she helped me go through that maybe pile. And it was really fun. Um, so maybe bring over someone that’s a little unbiased as you’re going through some of the harder stuff. Um, that was one thing that I did.
But, um, yeah, after I went through the bathroom, I don’t know, it just, I don’t like to clean.
This is probably like another huge motivator for me when it comes to like living with fewer things. I cleaned houses in college and I remember cleaning off all the knickknacks off of people’s sinks or off all their shelves. And I just, uh, I was like one day, I’m never going to do that. I don’t want to do that.
And there’s some cute.
It looks cute. It looks good, but I don’t want to have to take care of that. So I think there were many motivating factors and probably shifting what I wanted for life, we were talking about the tangibles when it comes to the stuff, but also, like I said, focusing more on experiences. And I would say that’s something my husband and I have always really prioritized, even as we were starting to add children, um, just saying to family members, okay, this is the way that you guys have seen that we’re starting to live and. For our first daughter, now that she’s three, maybe take her out to lunch and maybe if she wants to pick out a toy too, that’s okay, but go spend time with her. That’s more important than showering her with gifts. Take her to a movie, take her to putt, putt, like take her to all the things in Columbus. I’m sure that if you live in a big city, there’s many options of museums or like conservatories, things to do. So just kind of shifting in that way too, of saying. My husband and I aren’t going to have all the newest things. I mean, our TV that we still own today, he bought 15 years ago. It’s a small TV in our upstairs room that we barely even watch just because we’re like, well, we’d rather go out to drinks with friends, or we’d rather go out on a date with one another.
We’d rather put the money towards that. Then again, everyone’s values are different, but that has been something really important to us. Again, long term of what we saw for our future. Yeah.
Monica Packer: Mm hmm. And this is where I think it’s nice to hear about what this has given you. And you’ve talked about more experiences. You also talked about less cleaning. Anything else that you can share, why this has been so transformative for you and your family?
Diane Boden: Okay. So let’s get slightly deep with this one. So I do, I, I often think about my mortality and death and the fact that I’m not going to be able to take everything with me. And I like, this sometimes will overwhelm me if I really think about it. One day someone’s going to go through the majority of my things and throw them away. And these special things to me now are going to be trash. And so just saying like, how much am I going to spend? How much effort am I going to take to buy these things when I could do something else with those funds? I don’t know. Again, that’s not everyone wants to think that way, but, um, my faith is very important to me as well. And God tells us to store our treasures in heaven. So even if you’re not a Christian, but you value relationships to me, I’m just like, Focus that energy elsewhere because it’s so fleeting, impulsive purchases, which a lot of us are doing because it fills this void that we may need, especially at the end of the day.
I know a lot of moms will be scrolling on Amazon or through influencers and you’re just hitting click buy, click buy. Maybe what you needed to do was go to bed. Maybe what you needed was connection with your spouse
or a friend, Maybe You needed to be fed better throughout the day, but oftentimes I’ve noticed with myself when I’m doing that impulsive thing, it’s mostly a void that I’m trying to fill that actually the thing won’t fill because I know what I value.
So again, I’m tangenting.
Monica Packer: No, no, this is good. Cause you just gave us another practical tip because that’s, that’s something that I try to do is just sit on something for a bit to just really have it in my cart for a while. Enter my myself that sells. We’ll always come back. I’m a big bargain buyer and an Instagram knows that about me.
Like all my ads are completely sale based. Like this is now 70 percent off, you know? And I just have to always remind myself, it’s gonna, that sells going to come back. And if I really still want that thing, it’ll still probably be there even for a good deal.
So much about personal alignment and making sure our space is reflective of who we are. What if who we are is in direct conflict with the people that we live with and how they like their things to be in alignment. With themselves and maybe how that means they spend money differently.
maybe they hold onto things a little bit more than maybe you would like. What have you seen both in yourself and in your community of how people have worked through that?
Diane Boden: Absolutely. I think another important takeaway with living in a minimalist lifestyle is that the world can feel out of control. And I think we have little control over our children. We can try and control as much as we can, but they’re still autonomous humans. And so with minimalism and with the, Really organizing and decluttering our spaces.
That kind of gives me back a sense of control. And so for me, even in the spaces that I, uh, regularly inhabit, so my closet or most of the communal spaces, my husband will give me some freedom over. I have control in those spaces. I allow my kids. An amount of control in their rooms, especially like dictated by age.
So visual boundaries of saying you can fill this much space. And once it’s filled, then we need to start reassessing, um, helping the middle
child, the baby, maybe pulling things out that he doesn’t necessarily know are going, but I think you’re mostly talking about what if our partner is not on board and fortunately for me, I mostly have a partner that’s very aligned with me, but I think one, just living by example to, um, Allowing them to have a space that is their own to do with what they want in our old basement.
My husband had his workshop and he had some artwork down there. He had this big fish head that his great grandfather had caught and mounted on a plaque. And I don’t necessarily want that in my home, but that was his space. And I don’t get to
control him and what he wants in his space. So just allowing for that autonomy in that space is really important because I think then you’re not butting heads.
It’s, but again,
for those communal spaces, just saying, okay, everyone has to exist here. So what are the systems that we want to put into place that work best for everyone? Not just you and me, but for our kids too, to where we can all just like move through our day a little bit freer. I think like entryways are a really huge thing and pantries and bathrooms.
We all have, we have to assess those places. Living room, I’ve always kind of had control over because again, I’m usually the one here for most of the day, but I think it’s probably going to be maybe many conversations and moving that way, but always starting with your stuff first in that whole living by example, I think is important because for me, I can’t really be forced into anything.
I’m super stubborn and I have to just experience it to want to have it, I guess. So I would never want to impose my will and not on other people because it also can backfire. And I think that’s my fear with my
kids. I don’t want them to hate this type of lifestyle. I don’t want them to just hold on to their possessions and for them to be everything to them. Um, so I think there is a fine line. With it all just continuing to expose, even like saying, Hey, there’s a good book, like our documentary, like watch the minimalist documentary, read some of their books. Um, I think there’s ways to go about doing it.
Monica Packer: Well, thank you for sharing those, especially, I love the thought of you not having a perfectly minimalist house, even though this is so much of what you have done personally and even professionally that it doesn’t have to be so cut, cut dry here. Like
there is wiggle room and there’s wiggle room within.
The within the relationships that you have and who else you live with. We’ve had so many great tips. Thank you very much. I want to end with one small way you think listeners can take action on what they learned today.
Diane Boden: Absolutely. Um, okay, let’s see, because I feel like I already talked about, um, pulling everything out in one small space and gaining momentum. Usually, if you want to cut that out, usually my biggest tip would be to gain momentum with small wins, not necessarily doing an entire overhaul, um, not starting with sentimental items. But. I think my challenge to people would be even just writing down some of the pain points in your life, writing down some of those areas that may be of overwhelm. I did this, I did this the other day. I’d still have to do this of, Hey, these areas are starting to get out of control.
And what can I address tonight? Like, even if it’s 15 minutes, just starting a 15 minute timer, putting on a podcast, putting on your favorite music. Tuning everything else at, and you had 15 minutes, like I said earlier in the podcast, even if this is all very overwhelming to you, just taking note that there’s a change that might need to be made there.
You’re a step ahead of a lot of people. A lot of people don’t want to address that they need to do some work here. So, I don’t know. I just want to encourage people that they’re, that minimalism is a tool and you can live with less than you think.
Monica Packer: That’s definitely what I’m going to take away from this. The most minimalism being an, a tool for intention. that
that was like mind blowing for me and made so much sense. Okay. Diane, I want to make sure we direct them to both your Instagram, your podcast, and as. And your book as well. So can you tell them where they should go and where to find your book as well?
Diane Boden: Absolutely. So the, the Instagram account is at minimalist moms podcast. The book is minimalist moms living and parenting with simplicity. And I really do think if you are starting out on this journey, this would be a great starting point. It’s definitely for beginners and definitely something that you can just take bite size little chunks and, um, work your way through.
And then the podcast of course, is minimalist moms podcast, everywhere you listen to podcasts. My hope is to start another podcast here, more about this intention that you and I keep talking about. I still have that, like. haven’t fully, um, gotten there yet, but one day, one day. So that’s where you can find me for now.
Monica Packer: Thank you. Well, let us know when you do watch the
other one and we’ll be the first in line to listen and I’ll let my community know, well, this has been so fabulous. Thank you very much for taking the time for us with about progress community. And we really appreciate you.
Diane Boden: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I hope it was helpful.
Monica Packer: It was super helpful. I mean, I loved all those tips. That was so great. Um,
I don’t feel like I’m answering your, your original question. I feel like I’m just going
Monica Packer: No, no, no. That, that wasn’t even, that was just a, that was my own tangent.
So if you, if you, have something to add to that, great, but if not, I have another question. So it’s up to
Diane Boden: Oh yeah. you can, you can go
for the next question. Yeah. You can go for the next question.
Monica Packer: I’m thinking about, okay, let me start that again.
