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We all face dips in our mental health, in our belief in ourselves, and our capacity to just “deal” with life.
How can you face those dips with both acceptance but not despair?
And what do you do when those dips line up with a major transition you’re taking on, and it’s hard to see around the insecurity you feel?
Today’s special bonus episode is an edited coaching call I did with a client named Wendy.
Wendy is facing a dip as she works to start a new career and feeling neck-deep in alllll the disqualifiers that are coming up for her.
“I’m too old.”
“I don’t know the technology.”
“I should have started years ago.”
You’ll hear us talk about how to handle those dips, ways to remove yourself from the shield of perfectionism, and how to counteract the disqualifers with qualifiers.
Whether you’re like Wendy and facing a dip in your mental health or are starting a new phase–a new job, a new relationship, a new season–this episode will help you learn how to NOT WAIT and raise your hand to qualify yourself.
About a few other things…
Reclaim your creative power and rediscover who you actually are! If you’re ready to come back home to yourself, to be able to say that you know who you are and what matters to you, take my foundation course, “Finding Me.” It’s OK that you’ve lost parts of yourself along the way; but as you learn to anchor back into who you are and align your life to what matters to you, you’ll find that you have more strength, more fulfilment, and more creativity to bring to your important roles and responsibilities.
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TRANSCRIPT
Wendy: I just feel like I’m, it’s going to happen. I’m destined to have these dips every so often. And I feel like all I can do is just wait for them to be over. And I don’t even think to reach out, I guess, because they wouldn’t really even know what help to ask for what would, I mean, like, I don’t even know what I need in that moment.
Monica: Okay. I actually resonate a lot with what you just said, just so you know, I have a similar issue.
So I get this, I get this in many ways. Just a few things on that. It’s a big ask for people like you and me to even just ask for help or to just share we’re struggling.
I do want to challenge you to do what I’m trying to do with these dips, because I experienced a really dark bit dip last week, too. I don’t know. I know, I know there’s things going on. You’re right. We sh we should expect those.
Those do come that’s part of the path. It’s part of life, the dips will come, but there are still ways for us to be supportive of ourselves during those dips. And we do those with baseline habits. That’s one way, but we also do that by just connecting, connecting with ourselves and our emotions and our needs instead of just like shutting off the emotions and the needs.
Like shutting off from the pain and the motion and just like, kind of gritting your way through and like, try not to feel it, like it’s like a shield. Right, right. And then also connecting to others which is also another form of a shield. You know, that’s a shield from vulnerability too, vulnerable being vulnerable with yourself and being vulnerable with others.
But that doesn’t mean you have to like go on Facebook or Instagram and, and share. How hard it is right now. It doesn’t mean you have to do that. That are not comfortable for you.
Wendy: I know it’s good for them to see me having emotions, but it’s, I really struggle with making people uncomfortable or feel guilty or whatever.
I don’t want people to pity me. I don’t want people to do things out of pity for me or out of guilt.
That’s part of why I like, I don’t reach out and I know I, I would like to get better at that.
Monica: Well, and the thing about it is it doesn’t mean you have to be a different person with a different personality, and it doesn’t mean you have to be vulnerable with every person that crosses your path. They still need to be safe people, even just a safe person or a safe space, for sure.
But what I love about what you just shared is that you went from, I don’t want to be an obligation to people. I don’t want to be cared for in a relationship out of pity or guilt, right. But in the fear of that happening, you’re also shutting yourself off from a relationship both to yourself and others, and also shutting off the opportunity for them to show up in ways that might surprise you.
Wendy: I know, and I think you and I have talked in the past about dependence versus interdependence. And, you know, I think with, with my divorce, it’s been a, like, I need to be able to take care of myself. Right. You know, and, and I do, but that. It’s like indirect conflict with being able to depend on people.
Monica: Part of being independent is being connected to yourself and PR and in order to be in the, you know, interdependent, you must have that independence of connection to yourself.
Being able to be in tune with the hard stuff and support yourself through. So that you also can be interdependent in a way that you’re not asking people to save you. You’re just asking for them to hold space for you.
Wendy: Yeah. I, I struggle with that distinction, you know, I,
Monica: It’s an all-or-nothing distinction in your mind, I feel like, and it, and it has been for me.
So I very much,
Wendy: yeah. I mean, I grew up and I had to figure stuff out for myself and I did. Yeah. And then I ended up in a place where I was completely dependent on someone else. Oh yeah. Yeah. Even though it was a joint decision, you know, we both decided I would stop working.
But it felt I ended up feeling yucky. Yeah.
Monica: So this is, I feel like a big part of your transition to recognizing that need for independence in your life and intuitive living. But like we’ve been discussing too from the beginning of working together that this takes time, to build trust, to live intuitively and a big part of that is connection with yourself. So maybe you’re not totally ready to put the shield down with other people. And when I say other people, I’m thinking like one safe person, okay. Or even just your children. We want to work on you supporting yourself by being able to be vulnerable with yourself and connect with yourself during those dips.
Wendy: Yeah, that’s definitely a challenge. You know, I, I do think that I’ve improved in those days. But I still have, you know, a ways to go. I mean, even the fact that I recognize that it will end, this too shall pass. You know, that recognition is a big, you know, yeah, definitely. I think now, just like you were saying, you know, looking for that connection, being vulnerable with others, allowing people to support me is kind of the next steps, so to speak, to, to work on because those dips, they, they do, they’re going to keep coming
Monica: You know, we talk about gaps, progress gaps. You’ve closed a lot of gaps the past year. You really have. The progress has been huge, Wendy. I mean, I told you this a couple of weeks ago that at the beginning of the program, you were the one that I was most worried about doing a good job for.
I was anxious to support you and help make this happen. You’ve done the work. Yeah, you’ve done the work. I couldn’t, I couldn’t have forced it. You did the work this year and you have closed so many gaps. Let’s just sit with that for a minute. This is, this is huge. Even this off time is showing you how far you’ve come.
Wendy: I guess that’s true. You know, I, I think it’s really easy to kind of see the road ahead and the areas that I still need, because those gaps still seem large, you know? But you’re right. It’s good to kind of look back and realize how far I have come. Yeah.
Monica: But then the thing about gaps, right, is there’s always going to be the next gap to close.
And this is where you have the opportunity to use the past to inform your willingness to move forward to face the next. And as part of that, the resistance that will come, the valley of disappointment, maybe valleys of disappointment that will come and how willing you are to move into that, through that discomfort so that you can grow, but in ways that are supportive of yourself instead of denying, or what’s the word, I guess kind of like debasing yourself.
Not that kind of uncomfortable, right? Yeah. How do you feel about that?
Wendy: I mean, I look forward to, to moving forward and continuing to improve, you know, I… it’s interesting. Sometimes I feel like I’m too old for it. You know, like, oh my gosh, like I’m already 47, almost 48. I’m closer to 48 now than I am to 47, you know?
And, you know, I actually just started this… I’ve decided to to become a virtual assistant and I think I would, I used to be an executive assistant. I was one for a very long time.
And I think like I, so I, and I’m very organized and detail oriented that in all of that. The main thing holding me back is just like, even though I love tech, like I want to be proficient in the tech. And I need, like, I’ve forgotten what it’s like to talk to strangers again, you have to pitch yourself basically.
But in kind of starting this program. I feel old, just so many people are younger. They’re in their twenties or thirties and I can’t help, but think, gosh, I wish I’d had my act together, you know, 20 years ago. To do this or even five years ago or even one year ago, like I actually had started looking at VA work last April and got sucked into web design, through virtual assisting.
And then basically that led to, you know, 8, 6, 7, 8 months of no forward progress for me. So. I’m excited looking forward in the spiraling up. But sometimes it’s just, I, I feel like I’m just, gosh, if, if only I had done this sooner. So, so I look forward to it.
But sometimes it’s hard to do that because that also brings up feelings of, you know, of feeling like I’m late to the party.
Monica: Okay. I’d like to do a little exercise with you, and this was kind of spontaneous, obviously, like not pre planned. But first, before we do that, I want to tell you something really interesting.
When you said I’m too old, I’ve had women of every age. Tell me.
Wendy: Even in their thirties and twenties really. Wow.
Monica: Every age. I’m not kidding. I’m not making that up. Well, it’s, it’s like, you know, there’s all these feminist reasons why, right? Like we don’t value women and seniority and aging.
Wendy: Yeah. Becoming wiser. Yeah.
Monica: So every, you know, we, we, we, we disqualify ourselves because of age, regardless of what age we actually are.
Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. I can see that. So
Monica: I just wanted to say that to you. Okay. Every age. Okay. Let’s go through some of the disqualifiers that you already named. Okay. And let’s name any more that are coming up and let’s do this.
Would you like to do this with a frame of it being for the virtual assistant or career in general? Sure. Would that be helpful to you or something
Wendy: that feels very relevant right now?
Monica: I think so, too. So what I’ve heard you say so far, some disqualifiers from you pursuing a fulfilling career. Let’s say fulfilling career.
Maybe it’s not your dream job. Like I am Steve jobs have this kind of field or like I am making this kind of difference across the world, or even I’m having fun every day, you know? Okay. So fulfilling career. Your disqualifiers so far have been I’m too old, I am not up to date on the skills I am full of regret about when I’ve started and how I’ve started.
Late to the party. So those are, you know, there’s some crossover there, any other disqualifiers,
Wendy: How will I stand out? You know, just feeling like I’m kind of average.
Monica: Okay. What else?
Wendy: That’s probably close to it. I mean, I do have some positive feelings about, about it. Like
Monica: That’s what’s next. Actually. I want to do that now. Let’s now let’s figure out how you can qualify yourself because just like every woman at every age convinces themselves, that they’re too old, truly, they also have the option to qualify themselves.
That’s only something you can do. Nobody can qualify you, you have to qualify yourself. So what are some things we could put under that column? What are ways that you can qualify yourself? Qualifiers?
Wendy: Well, I mean, I guess with age comes experience. I am very much like I pick things up really, really quickly. I love tech. Like, I, I love, love, love tech and apps and all of that.
Monica: So I really, really,
Wendy: I love it. I love it. Love it. Like if you gave me a new software to learn every day, I’d be like a pay, what is it, a pig in mud or whatever happens. So I know that I can pick up anything.
I have standards. I have really high standards, which, you know, also can be a detriment, but but it’s, it’s definitely
Monica: good to have high standards. I actually still have high standards.
Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. I’m very detail oriented, you know, I just like, I’m a hard worker. I’m a people pleaser.
So I want to make sure that I do a good job. And I feel like I’m personable.
Monica: Yes.
Wendy: And I just like, I love the idea of, of helping of being helpful, you know, just making somebody’s life easier in their business. I love the idea of helping, especially other women, you know, with their businesses and taking things off their plate. And almost mom- like almost, you know which I think is something that comes with age too. Is that feeling of not wanting to mother somebody, but just, yeah.
I feel pride in being able to help someone else with their business and to succeed. And yet I also just love that being my own boss and being able to run my own schedule kind of so that I can be there for my people. So, so
Monica: yeah, this is fantastic. Okay. If you could see what I wrote, you would see that the qualifier column is way longer than the disqualifier column. Way longer.
And even with that, I think even just a few of these qualifiers far outweigh the weight of the disqualifiers. I mean, just listen to this. Okay. I have, I’m talking like I’m you. Okay. I have experience. I’m a fast learner. I love tech. I love learning. I’m dependable. I have high standards. I’m detail oriented.
I’m a hard worker. I want to do a good job. I’m personable. I like to be helpful. I’m capable. I take pride in my work and I love to work in like, I love to have independence with my schedule.
There’s your interview, I have like your here’s here’s your, on your resume. Yeah. You should have like, I’m here to make your life easier. That’s one of the things you kind of said, and I was like, that’s your point?
Like I’m here to make your life easier, not harder. Right. I don’t need to be managed. Give me the list. I go do it. I might do it on my own time. Cause that’s kind of the flexibility that you’re looking for. So we talked about like looking at the truth, you know, the true care is that you, there are disqualifiers.
There are, but the truth is there are amazing qualifiers. And the part of that truth is there will always be disqualifiers.
This could have been 20 years ago and you would have had disqualifiers.
Wendy: Hmm. That’s a good way of looking at it. Yeah, that’s true.
Monica: And by the way, I’m doing an episode on Monday. How to start where you are, and it’s not too late. So this is really kindly wishing I had said a bunch of the stuff in the episode, but now we can’t, but that’s the biggest thing I want you to the truth I want you to hold on to is there will always be disqualifiers.
Okay. Always
Wendy: with everybody, right?
Monica: Everybody for everything at every stage.
So you get to decide again, if you are going to have the courage to move into the discomfort zone and choose which thing you’re going to value more, the disqualifiers are the qualifiers.
Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. And I guess. Yeah. And I, and I go through phases where sometimes I really focus on the qualifiers, you know, like you would be lucky to have me type of a thing, you know, I know I would do great, but then I have those dips where the disqualifiers just become huge and have very loud voices. And hopefully they, they come during a time where they can’t really mess anything up too badly.
Monica: Yeah. So yeah, again, we’re somehow living the same life, but in different ways, because that was part of my big dip last week is. Like head top deep in the disqualifiers of my life business with my kids, yeah. But yeah, those dips will come, but when they do, I want you to do what we just did make a two column list for the disqualifiers on one side, and voice the qualifiers, you know, voice then and take a look at them. And then I want you to come at it from a place of choice and with. To not let your sweet little ego, you know, call the shots because it’s fear-driven so it’s going to amplify those disqualifiers. Yeah.
Instead we want to say thank you. Yeah. Some of these are true. Maybe all of them are true, but so are the beats. These qualifiers are true too. So now I get to choose. I get to be step into a response gap. And choose how I am going to respond to this opportunity and what’s next for me. And that response might, that choice might still be I’m scared, but I’m ready to move forward.
I feel some self doubt, but I’m choosing to move forward or to do this thing, to put myself out there to try this thing all the while, still reminding myself of these true qualifiers.
Wendy: So acknowledge the, the fear, so to speak, but move pat not move past it, but also acknowledge the pluses because they’re both true.
Well, there’s there there’s truth in both.
Monica: That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. Because what we like to do with the disqualifiers is work them into being 100% true or like really amplified that. And we’ve done this with what if versus what is right. Like a lot of times our, what ifs might have a root of truth to them, so we can own that, but also be like, but what else is true?
Like I might, I might be arriving to the show late it’s later than I would’ve wanted. That is true. What is also true is I have more experience because of that then these 20 or 30 year olds do I, I do, I have more experience. I might not know the latest technology, but I love learning about tech. So I’m excited for this.
You see how they kind of go together?
Wendy: Yeah. They kind of do what is their response to the other?
Monica: Yeah. So what’s coming up for you right now. What thoughts?
Wendy: Well, I wanted, I thought I really, I should probably have like a, not pros and cons, but a pluses and minuses, whatever list on hand at all times to, to visit, to be able to visit that when the dips happen.
And just, I feel positive. I feel. I think hearing you say I am older, that is true. You know, however, that means that I’m more, I have more experience, you know, that’s such an amazing ability to just be able to. Not turn it around, but add more to the story to still, and it’s still true. So you’re not trying, I just, I’m fascinated by not denying the disqualifiers.
But adding, making it even making it equal. If you’re going to look at the disqualifiers, you have to look at the qualifiers too, because that’s part of your story. So Yeah, I feel like I need, I, I’m not going to be able to do that when I’m in the middle of a dip. And so I feel like I need to figure out how to jog my memory, how to, how to at least look at it, be able to look at it when I’m in those dips, have something reset up for that.
Monica: I agree with you. I do. And actually I was going to say, what’s next for you? Like when you do have these dips and these disqualifiers are the loudest places in your head I will do something that, oh gosh, what does it talk about? It’s either…. Oh, I think it’s talking to indestructible by Nir Eyal. He talks about something that Japanese train conductors do, and maybe it was someone else now.
So I’m, I feel bad, but anyway, they, they call out something. So they noticed that there were a lot of I’m going to shorteEyathis don’t worry. There were, there were a lot of accidents happening over silly things that could have been really presented. Okay. And the only thing they did to dramatically increase the safety with like all these bullet trains, like in Japan, right?
Was that the train conductors and other people doing their job. It wouldn’t just do the job. They would point and call what they’re doing, turning on the light, increasing speed, closing the doors. Like they would literally point and do it. So in a proverbial way now I want you to, to call, like to point and call it out.
And if that’s like, if you’re just pay attention to the body, I think pay attention to like the signs that your body is, is like carrying these disqualifiers. Maybe you like to numb out your brain, but maybe your body’s feeling it or vice versa. Your brain is rapid-fire and cause I can alternate those either.
My brain is like, I’m a running tape on repeat. Really fast or I’m just like, you know, in a state of paralysis almost. Yeah. So you get to identify what that looks like for you as a paralysis. Is it rushing heartbeats as it like, you know, like is it like breathing more? Is it like pain? Is it heaviness?
Are you walking around heavy? Is it, you know, pay attention to those and maybe you can Voxer me and like, say. How I can pay attention to my body showing me, and when those happen, I really want you to just point it out. I’m feeling this, and this is the disqualifier that’s going on in my head like this.
This is this, the pain and my heart that’s heaviness is because I think this
Wendy: Okay, so just naming it, just naming it. Yeah.
Monica: That’s honestly the first step. I mean, why do you think like an alcoholic recovery for AA? You know, the first step is to say like, hi, I’m, so-and-so an alcoholic. That’s just, that’s just naming it.
It’s naming the problem. Okay. I don’t like that that’s like an identity, so that’s yeah, that’s an issue I take with the naming it I get, yeah. Okay. So for you, we’re naming, we’re helping you. Get to a space where you can zoom out a little bit and just name the issues. And then if you’re able to take a breath and also named the truth.
Wendy: Yeah. The what is, okay. Okay. That makes sense.
Monica: Yeah. And that’s where you might need to put down that shield and name it with someon. Or even just yourself for starters I think.
Wendy: That’s interesting you say that because I find that when, when I do reach out, if I do, you know, I think this is, this is the, every wife’s complaint about their, their spouse is I just want to be heard.
I don’t want you to fix it, you know? I just, and sometimes like, like last week, like I do have a friend, but he was trying to like lift me up and it’s like, I don’t know, you have to validate that I am in the pits right now. Like how,
how do you like, like, it’s not that I want to wallow in it, but I needed
Monica: to be validated.
Yeah. And
Wendy: so I think maybe that’s my not concerned, but you know, whatever with, with doing that with somebody else is. I just, I just want you to, to say, yeah, that sucks. Or life is hard or sometimes this, I don’t know. I wonder how I would react to them being like, but this other part is true to this positive
Monica: part.
And that’s why I say, let’s start with yourself. And let’s see if that helps a lot in that, just that connection with yourself. Like it’s actually a big part of it is connecting with the emotions and the thoughts that are going on instead of just going to autopilot or gritting your way through it, connecting to them.
It’s like they say, You know, naming the demon gives you its power or
Wendy: something like that. I just
Monica: messed that power or something. I totally messed that up, but okay. So what, we’re just going to say it that way though. Naming this can give you its power in some ways. It’s not in the driver’s seat. Now it can just be in the passenger seat or in the backseat.
Yeah. Wow. Wow. That is true. Let’s put you here and now let’s connect with myself. Like what is true, but, but I am that person by the way, like you can just transparently say, Hey, I don’t need a fix, but this is what’s on my mind. And I can say. I still get that. That’s hard. Tell me more, or I can say like, tell me how that feels in your body or yeah.
Then that sort of like, I could let you guide that, but that takes experimentation on who’s going to be the right person or also just takes learning, like training your friend to say, right. You know, I appreciate that advice, but I just really want to be validated in these times. Yeah.
Wendy: Yeah.
We’re going to acknowledge some of the disqualifiers, but also acknowledge the qualifiers.
Monica: Yeah. We’re going to start by naming it, to paying attention to the symptoms and naming best is what’s going on.
I am disqualifying myself or I’m having doubt or I’m having anger. I’m having insecurity. I’m having lonlieness. Okay. And sometimes that means you’re going to name it disqualifies other times it’s going to just be you’re naming. The fear is really what you’re doing. You’re naming the fear and they’re speaking truth to that fear.
Okay.
Wendy: Yeah. I guess knowing what’s going on is the first step right in. Yeah. Yeah.
Monica: Okay. I can do that. And practice things will get better in terms of the shell that we’ve been talking about. And all that. And I, you know, I’m in a with you, you know?
Wendy: Yeah. I I’m getting that. Yeah.
Monica: I know. Like you’re talking to someone who like went through years of eating disorders and never told a soul.
Me and you, we’re armadillos. I think it’s not so great in the long run.
Wendy: Maybe hedgehogs. Hedgehogs are cuter than armadillos. Okay. We’ll go
Monica: with hedgehogs. That is cute. Yeah,
well, this is great. I appreciate being there, have this conversation with you. It was weirdly helpful for me, which I’m at. You’re like, this is not what I’m here for.
Wendy: Of course I am. Are you kidding?
Monica: But yeah, you’re not alone. That’s I guess the real heart of it is you’re not alone and none of us. No, we’re not.
And I’m really glad that you’d let me be a part of it.
