Ever feel like you’re running on empty by the time bedtime rolls around? You’re not alone! Join me in a heartfelt conversation with Melissa, a devoted homeschooling mom of four, as we tackle this all-too-familiar problem. We discuss the immense responsibilities Melissa faces and how these shape her daily routine, plus how she strives to balance her desire for efficiency with her deep commitment to connecting with her children.
Together, we brainstorm practical strategies to transform her evenings into moments of intentional connection without sacrificing much-needed self-care. Make sure to listen to the whole episode, this candid and relatable coaching session might just provide the right advice to help you navigate your own parenting challenges.
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TRANSCRIPT
Monica Packer: Melissa, welcome to about progress. Thank you. I’m excited to talk to you. I’m always eager to do these coaching calls. We get so much out of them. We like to start with a little introduction. So can you tell us about you?
Melissa: Yes, I’m Melissa. I’m married to my husband, Matthew, and we’ve been together for about a decade.
We have four kids. Our oldest is nearly nine, nearly seven, four, and one. And I’m a homeschooling mom, a range of neurodiversity with our oldest, some chronic health things with other kids. So I’m very involved in the day to day activities of my children and their needs.
Monica Packer: Oh, my heart is already reaching out to you.
We, we have a lot in common already. So I imagine there’s a lot on your plate with that load of responsibilities, but what brought you to coaching today?
Melissa: You know what, Monica? I thought I had a whole list of things I could talk about with you, as I’m sure many people could, but the one that just kept hitting me is that being home with my kids all day, and as they’re getting older, their needs are expanding, and I feel like at nighttime, I am totally worn out.
By the time I’m putting them to bed, which, you know, maybe half the time my husband’s not home to help me put them to bed, that I feel like I have given everything I can to them. And rather than the, you know, fairy tale, kiss my children goodnight after reading them stories for an hour, I’m just like, Hey, we are done.
Good night. I don’t want to see you until the morning. And it’s really hard because I have these two conflicting values of, I love connecting. I really value connecting to my children, making them feel special, but I also really value efficiency. So I’m like, how quickly can I connect with you? Such a counter, you know, counter counter value with each other.
But especially by the end, I’m like, I’m ready to be done, recharge myself. And I just keep finding myself turning into the version I like least of myself at bedtime with my kids.
Monica Packer: My Chuckles there were knowing chuckles. They weren’t me laughing at you. It’s me being like, Oh boy, do I know this? Well, and yes, I feel the same.
And so does my husband to at night. We’re just like, don’t come up again, because they all have their rooms in the basement. So, so I actually want to start by asking a question, and it’s what is wrong with feeling exhausted at night? What is wrong with needing time to yourself? What is wrong with having a lower capacity at night?
Melissa: I think that’s a pretty normal, I think most parents would agree, and I think most people can relate to this, that by, you know, we’re not at our best. But I think in my mind, I’ve heard from women I really admire about how ending the evening is like such an important part of the day. Like we resolve our issues, we end with, I love you.
And, you know, it’s almost like the end of the day puts a flavor for how the whole day went. And I think I have this external pressure of if tonight does, you know, I ruined every good thing I did during the day. If I mess up bedtime.
Monica Packer: So that’s a lot of added pressure to something that is already stressful.
Let’s face it. It is stressful to get kids. To bed and that number of kids with a number of their own unique traits and difficulties. I like that you started by validating for yourself. It’s totally normal that I maxed out at night. It’s normal that I feel those things. It’s normal that I’m exhausted and I need a break and that I don’t have as much energy or presence of mind to be a very patient version of myself.
But I hear the conflict, and I also want to validate that too, because It’s both. We want you to work with where you’re at, but still be able to show up a little bit differently. Is that right? Yeah. Okay. So the way I want to fix this is not, how can we turn you into a different person at night?
And it’s not like, how can we ignore all these obstacles to the connection you’re looking for with your kids? Because that seems a little unrealistic, right? To just be like, let’s just make it. So you’re always happy. At night, or that you have a ton of energy and a really long fuse, we may not be able to make that be as possible.
So it’s more, how can I work with my limitations and still show up in a way that is connecting with my children? So that’s the question here.
For you, what does connection look like? What can it look and feel like with your kids?
Melissa: I think when I felt the most connected to my kids in the past, it’s when I’m acknowledging their uniqueness. Okay. And showing my love for them for that. I have Rachel Nielsen’s Flex of Gold Journal and love that reading, reading those to them and them seeing how much I love them and I treasure them.
is sometimes the times I feel the closest to them is when I’m recounting or maybe a little bit nostalgic with them and teaching them who they’ve always been to me. I, that’s something that has helped in the past is if I pause and like write in my journal before putting them to bed, it helps me remember like, oh, okay, this is a good kid.
It’s not one who just wants more and more like this is valuable and important to me. Yeah. So I think validating their individuality and my individual love for each of them is when I feel the most connected to them.
Monica Packer: Great. So it’s seeing them and helping them feel seen. Yeah. So what does that actually look like then on the outside?
How could that translate to some rituals or routines that you would like to have ideally at night with your children?
Melissa: See, and that’s another part that’s I think part of why this has become so hard is because our nights are not consistent anymore, because like when they were little and getting into bed like by seven, I felt like I did have more of that rhythm.
But now it’s like sometimes they have an extracurricular and we’re getting to bed later or my husband’s gone and I, you know, it’s, I feel like there’s a lot more variables now so I feel like my routine has had to. Become more flexible than rigid. Yeah, but I, and I am like, that’s just how life is, right?
We all get to that phase where we can’t do the same thing every night. But I think snuggling with them and again, it’s each child is so different. My one year old has different needs than my nine year old who wants to process things. But having time to snuggling is a big one. Validating how they’re feeling.
I think my oldest has ADHD and at night her brain sometimes is just all over the place and she needs an outlet. And then my second one needs the snuggles, my third one needs the snuggles. So one person needs verbal processing, the other two need that physical touch.
Monica Packer: All right. We can see what that looks like. So does that to you feel like connection? Like, is that appropriate? Or did you have another ideal in mind that you were pushing up against?
Melissa: Like, why, like, what would my ideal be putting them to bed if I could?
Monica Packer: Yeah, well, I think in many ways you just cast your vision of what an ideal would look like that you have time to snuggle with the ones that need it and verbally process with the ones that need it. But what I’m asking is, how is this competing against an outside ideal with other moms? that you hear about that also are weirdly contributing to you feeling like you’re showing up to this time in ways that you don’t like.
Melissa: I think it’s because I don’t want to spend the time snuggling and I don’t want to spend the time talking. I feel like that’s the short answer is just, I don’t want to put as much time into that as they probably want.
Monica Packer: Okay, so it’s the time piece.
Okay. Because you see and hear about other moms taking a lot of time with their kids.
Okay. Let me just also say, I’m in a similar boat. So I want you to know you’re not alone in feeling like that time feels like a big ask, both with your energy levels and also things you may need to do finally that they’re down for the night. I typically have to work at night. So I get this.
What I want to challenge for you. Well, I want to challenge two things for you, actually. The first is that not having long connection at night means your children are not connected to you. We’ve got to challenge that. Let’s talk through that.
And as part of that, the second thing I think we need to challenge is that it takes time. Like it actually takes a long time at night. Okay. So one is kind of more deep and the other one’s kind of practical. You know, we’re going to think about like, why is it that you think not having a great deal of time at night to connect means undo does all the good connection during the day?
What is that about?
Melissa: Well, and I don’t think it’s so much the. If I don’t spend a lot of time doing it, I ruined the day. It’s if I lose my cool, like if I end on a bad note, like if I do a brief hug, kiss, pat on the back or whatever ritual with them, but I feel like it’s on a positive note, I’m okay.
But if it’s like, okay, I am done. You better not come out again. I will see you in the
morning. And then I walk away. That’s when I am. That’s when I feel like, okay, now I just messed up all the work I did for this relationship and I have to apologize in the morning, which also I know is going to happen.
Monica Packer: Okay, so it’s good for us to see, it’s not that you’re like, it takes a great deal of time to be a good mom, it’s just more of like, when I have those moments where I’m not in alignment, as, a mom, then it does feel like it undoes a lot of the good I do. And we know logically that’s not true. Like, we know that, but I get the feeling and I do want to help you avoid that better.
Because I’m not going to say, that’s not true. So goodbye. Like, that’d be nice. Yeah. That’s not true. Bye. No. Okay. So it seems more like the second challenge is actually going to help you by us figuring out. Ways to prevent you acting out of alignment as a mom at night, you acting in ways that aren’t connective, but actually even maybe I wouldn’t say destructive.
Melissa: To, yeah. I want
Monica Packer: to be intentional
Melissa: about it. And when I feel like I’m not intentional about it, that’s when it becomes a problem.
Monica Packer: Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah. You want to, you just want to be you mom.
You don’t want to be mad mom. Right.
So with our goal to be preventing mad mom at night, we’re going to do that two ways.
And the first is a sort of pregame. I think we need to do something earlier in the day to help you have, because honestly, it just comes down to you’re tired. Right? And that’s what that’s really what the time crunch is for you. It’s not that you don’t necessarily have time, although you may have less time for sure.
It’s more that you don’t have the energy. So we need a pregame, but we also need a real game thing. Like what are we actually going to do to connect at night on the days where you do not have time? Anything
Melissa: we
Monica Packer: know the ideal, we just talked about that. That’s going to be great. But what is a form of connecting with your children that can help you do that for yourself and for them at night when you don’t have much to give from.
Melissa: Right. Yeah. So
Monica Packer: let’s actually start there. What is the baseline version of this? What is the simplest way you can connect with your kids at bedtime and then go to bed?
Melissa: What I have done over the years that my parents did with me is we do a hug and a kiss and a pat on the back and then tuck them in. Huh.
Monica Packer: That’s cute. And they’re, so they’re used to that as a form of ritual.
How often does that work? Is that enough for them? Like, do they like, okay, I’ll go to bed. I’d
Melissa: say if I don’t do it, they will come out and tell me like, you didn’t do the hug and kiss and a pat on the back. Great. And so
if I do that most, you know, more often than not, then they’re usually satisfied ish. They might still come out, and especially my oldest wants to talk, or will want to. Her body just isn’t ready to wind down yet. But the other two, definitely the hug, a kiss, and a pat on the back is about sufficient for them most nights.
Monica Packer: Okay, so let’s say no matter what we’re going for connection. So if we have this baseline way of connecting with them, the hug, kiss, pat on the back, that’s connection and it counts. And on the other days where you have more energy, which we’re going to work on next, how to have that more, they’re going to get more than that, which means it’s always still filling that same tank of connection with both of you.
Okay. So the other nights you can even say tonight, I’m going to snuggle with so and so hug, kiss, pat on the back. You know, so it’s maybe not every single child or sometimes it is, you’re able to meet all the needs, but other times it’s like, I can do the baseline version of connecting with them. But I also can ideally connect with this child who I can tell really needs it today.
Melissa: Yeah, that sparked in my mind. I had days of the week. Prioritize for each kid of, like, when they get to pick dinner or whatever. Yes. Oh, maybe pair that, like, okay, Emily’s days are Thursdays, so everyone else, like, everyone gets a kiss on the back, and then Thursdays, whatever extra bandwidth I have, if any, will go to her.
Yes. And know that it will cycle through, like, I don’t need to feel bad that Lily didn’t get it because her day is a different
Monica Packer: day. Well, and this also creates that predictability they need, right? And the boundaries you need. Okay. To say like, okay, this is so and so’s night. So tonight it’s our hug, kiss, pat on the back night.
I love you so much. Good night. And you can’t come out. Like you can still say things like that. Like, remember we’re staying in bed. It’s making me remember the ways I used to help my kids do that. And we like, had this whole action and I would just stand in the doorway and do the action.
I knew what it meant. Like, stay in your bed, stay very quiet, close your eyes and go to sleep. So they knew like, bye bye. That was it. Huh. Yeah. Which was really helpful. Anyway. So, so this is good. It’s good. We’re using what current rituals you already have systems as a family to add both the connection, but also the predictability that you all need to make this more realistic more often to move towards the ideal.
How is that feeling for you?
Melissa: That’s something that feels really good to me. And especially the days that correspond with my older three kids are the days my husband’s usually gone. And so that helps because the nights he’s here. You know, I feel like they kind of just expect it a different feeling anyway, since dad’s around.
But when it’s just me, I feel like I can say, Hey, Eliza, it’s Lily’s night tonight. I can’t wait when it’s your night to do the extra snuggle with you. Like validating, like, yes, you, I know you want that time with me and it is going to come and I’m excited for it too. I feel like also keeps it connected rather than like, leave me alone.
It’s time for Lily or whatever. Like, I feel like it’s staying. Like in that alignment with how I prioritize my relationship with them.
Monica Packer: Yeah. It gives them something to look forward to too, which I think can make them feel a little special and all those good things. Now I know this won’t happen every single night, some nights it’s going to be the hug, kiss, pat on the back for every child, and I want you to own that.
That’s still connection and it’s still okay. Because the goal is it’s calm. It’s not so much connection as although it is, it’s calm. It’s you being calm. Okay. So now let’s talk about pre gaming. I’m like using a sports term that I don’t even know what it really means, but I’m assuming it means that you do something before the game to help the game.
When we are stretched pretty thin with our responsibilities I know it may seem like another ask to take care of yourself a little bit earlier in the day, but in both my experience and those with many clients. it does change so much about how you’re able to show up to those responsibilities. Because, you know, we just talked about the tank
the tank of connection, like you have that energy tank and if you’re not putting anything into it, you’re not going to have anything to give from when you need at night, right? Especially when you’re on your own. So let’s think about how we can pregame like ahead of time. This may be much earlier in the day.
Like this may be lunchtime or even morning time, or it may be early afternoon, or it may even be. Right before I want to come up with a way for you to give to yourself and even a small way so that you can show up as a calm mom. You want to be.
Melissa: Yeah, I think history is the best predictor of the future, right?
Like trying to think what are the things that I’ve done that have helped me feel that way. Yes, yesterday I was like, okay, I need a minute. I’m going to go downstairs. I got into my pajamas and wrote my flags of gold and that took five minutes. And then I came up and I felt like I was in a better headspace.
That’s awesome. Keep reading for me. Yeah, and again, I rarely have time where I don’t have someone with me since they’re all home all the time. But I try to prioritize eating lunch before they eat lunch. Like, I actually eat my lunch because sometimes I don’t even eat anything because I’m so scattered, getting everyone’s Zooms up and school done and all that.
Food and different dietary needs and whatnot. But when I feel my best, I’ve often eaten by myself and read something. Those are two pillars for me is food. I like intentionally for me and reading. Okay. So maybe having a base, kind of a hug, a kiss and a pat on the back for myself would be like, okay, I at least get in my pajamas or write in my journal, like whichever I feel More than mindset for sometimes I might not be like, I want to write something beautiful about my children.
I might be like, I just need to feel cozy for a second and not touched. Yes. Yes. And then the days I have more, I can give more.
Monica Packer: Yes. Okay. I love that. How doable do you think that will be most nights because we really go for more times than not like every single day, but would that be something you could do more times than not that night leave ritual for yourself.
Yeah.
Melissa: Yeah, I would say more. There’s very rarely an evening I need to stay presentable. I could get in my pajamas by seven usually most nights and create come down get my pajamas. And I think it’s especially if I have this. And I guess I value intentionality as well too, like, if my intention is like, okay, I’m going to fill myself up, I feel like it would feel easier for me to say, okay, I’m intentionally taking this time to get in my pajamas, and even if I don’t write in a flexicle, I could at least read it if I’m not on the spot yet to write, and then I can
Monica Packer: go
Melissa: back
Monica Packer: up.
Great. I love the flexibility that you built in, even to the habit of the journaling, whether it’s reading it or writing in it. And how that can be so reflective of where you’re at that day, which is what we really need. I think that whole ritual is going to help you be both more connective and efficient and intentional, like all three actually.
. So knowing that, will it help you prioritize that better?
Melissa: Yes. And I think something, Monica, you said it like the very beginning that we kind of segued away from, I think has been percolating in my mind is it doesn’t have to take a long time. I don’t know if you’ve ever had, like your kid wants to show you something and you’re like, leave me alone.
But you’re like, okay, it’s literally 30 seconds and then it’s fine. I think I might be building it up in my mind of like, oh, this is going to be a really long time, but it’s like, it really, it might feel like a long time because my brain is trying to be in efficiency mode to get to the next thing. But if I can see it as like, okay, this is going to take.
Maybe 10 minutes and I’m going to feel much better. It’s a much better 10 minutes pouring into myself, pouring into them and then feeling like I can actually move forward rather than beat myself up the rest of the night.
Monica Packer: Yeah. So I’m glad that can help lean, help you lean into that ritual of giving to yourself a little bit before you give to your kids.
I also think the lunchtime habit would be an excellent thing to prioritize as well for those same reasons, how that helps you lean into those values of connection and efficiency and intentionality. Later on in the night because you can’t give from that empty. Well, that empty tank, you know, the empty bucket, whatever people say, like you can’t like, it’s just so, so we’re working with your limitations.
I think we’re not ignoring them. We’re helping you live more in alignment. Just a couple quick other things that I wanted to say since this isn’t going to happen every night. Like, let’s say, like, you have one of those days where you are happily doing the ritual with one kid who, it’s their day, right?
But then the other kid needs to talk. If you’ve given yourself those pregame habits, Earlier in the day, whether it was lunch and, or the nighttime one, I think you’ll have more energy to better handle those moments.
Melissa: Yeah.
Monica Packer: And when they happen, not if, cause it’s going to be a when, you get to choose in that moment, whether you hold to a boundary, because if you don’t hold to that boundary, you are going to be mean mom, right?
This was one of those days, or you’re going to choose to lean in, but you can do so still with some transparency with them to say, I’m feeling really tired. I really want to talk to you. Is it okay if we do that for three or five minutes? Does that work for you? Can we talk about that? But I may not have much in me to do much more than that tonight.
How would that feel to do something like that on one of those nights where another child needs something and it’s not their day
Melissa: I like putting a limit on it. And I think My kids we have kind of a system already where they know everyone is allowed out, like to use the bathroom or if they’re hurt, like legitimately hurt, like blood or throw up, they’re allowed out without, you know, retribution from mom.
Like I’m fine with that, but more than one time then they lose consequences in the morning. And so usually they don’t come out more than one time. And so I feel like I, I could, they, I feel like they would respect if I said, okay, Emily, I know this is your one time. And so I have five minutes, I can talk, I feel like she, she would respond to that better than me saying, okay, this is your one time.
What do you need? Like, yeah,
Monica Packer: Well, and I feel like there’s a way to have boundaries in a connective way. There’s a way to be transparent about where you’re at and still be connecting instead of it would be like what I’m tired, you know, like, I’m really tired, and I’d love to talk, can we do it for this long, or can you tell me the biggest thing on your mind and let’s walk through that.
Melissa: Yeah, I like that. I think I can have that all or nothing mentality, like I don’t want to talk at all, or I have to listen to every little thing to be, you know, holding my boundary or being a good mom. So it sounds like kind of marrying that I can have a boundary and be a good mom. Yeah, I think that would be a good way to frame it also for me to say, like, I can do five minutes and come talk to me for five minutes and then let’s go back to bed.
Monica Packer: Now that goes back to the original thing we shared, like it doesn’t have to be a long time or be super intensive to be connective. It’s, I think for you, the connection really lies in your own calmness.
Melissa: And I think something I have to acknowledge too is I’m comparing myself to the, I don’t know if it’s the average parent whose kids are gone most of the day, where I’m with my kids all day.
And so I am having more time than most parents to sit and talk to my kids. And so other people prioritizing longer conversations with their children at night might make sense for them because that’s the time they have available. Whereas I could say, okay, I can tell you have a lot to talk about. Let’s write it down and then over breakfast tomorrow, let’s keep talking.
Or you wake up before your sister’s let’s snuggle on the couch and talk about it tomorrow. Like I have other ways to beautiful time.
Monica Packer: Okay. Yeah. And I’m so impressed by your already existing systems and how helpful they can be now to buoy up this time for you. What is something that you want to make sure you remember from this call?
Melissa: I think what I want to remember, I think there’s two things. Is that Quality doesn’t have to equal quantity and that I should give myself a hug, a kiss, and a pat on the back before going up to do theirs.
Monica Packer: That makes me smile. I love that. And I’m gonna borrow from this, and just so you know, like, of my special needs kids, three have ADHD, I really understand the nighttime issues there, and one has pushed us to the brink of despair, like, every night for five or six years.
So, this is all said with full understanding, and also in ways that I hope can help you move forward to be the mom that you want to be at night.
Melissa: Well, thank you, Monica, you have such a great gift of asking questions, I think help people lead to their own answers. I feel it’s sometimes hard to receive instruction, if that makes sense, or a self help, but let me tell you what works for me.
I feel like you do a great job of helping uncover maybe truth that’s already there. So
Monica Packer: I feel like that’s very valuable. That is what coaching should be. And I’m not good at this in real life, but I am as a coach. So we’ll go with that. We’re all good at teaching other people. Yeah, that’s right. Well, thank you so much, Melissa.
Monica. Thanks, Monica.
