Have you ever felt overwhelmed by the hustle and bustle of daily life, wondering if there’s a better way to recharge? In this episode, I sit down with the insightful Dr. Yasmene Mumby to explore the transformative power of rest and relaxation. We dive into setting realistic goals, cultivating healthy habits, and embracing self-compassion as a cornerstone of personal growth.
As we get deeper into our chat, Dr. Mumby shares some compelling stories about how taking time to rest has led to greater resilience and overall well-being. We tackle the everyday challenges people face in slowing down and the surprising benefits that come from giving yourself permission to rest. My aim with this episode is to equip you with the insights and inspiration to prioritize rest as a vital part of your self-improvement journey—I hope you find it as rejuvenating and energizing as I did.
Referenced episode with Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith.
Did Something List episode, DSL Workshop, Did Something Guide
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TRANSCRIPT
Monica Packer: .Dr. Yasmene Mumby, welcome to About Progress.
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: Oh, thank you for allowing me to join and gather in community with you today.
Monica Packer: This must be one of those days where the stars are all in alignment for this conversation. Not just for my audience, because I’m sure we’re all in need of the topic, but also for you. Woo! Woo! For myself, I have been so looking forward to chatting with you about the importance of rest and how it is not a waste, because this is something we struggle with a lot as women, when there’s always more to be done and also so much reward. For hustling in our society and for being someone who does not rest. I wanted to actually begin with your story. How did you personally learn to own that rest was a valuable and necessary part of life?
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: Well, I had to unlearn that hustling and extending myself beyond my reserves was a formula for success. I had to un, and I’m still unlearning. I grew up in a family that has had to work incredibly hard, long hours for generations to have access. To education, and we can go into the history of the United States and why that is that is a reality for many communities who’ve been historically marginalized.
I’m a black woman. , but we don’t have to is because it’s very apparent and very clear. You know, the learning the trajectories of most black folk in this country and how we got on the path to learning and education, and access to such. So I grew up watching so many folks just work very hard, to earn their living.
And that was instilled within me through that practice of being around people who had to do the same thing and no matter their, health complications or experiences on the job in school. You had to persist because that was the only way. And once I became of age, so I would say mid twenties, mid to late twenties, I, was in law school at night working full time, and I was at the helm of some very serious community organizing advocacy work for and with Baltimore’s families to generate and secure.
Funding for capital building improvements and for curriculum resources across the city and that took a lot of work with over 3000 people. I was running a coalition at the time the day. And going to school at night and law school is no joke. It’s no joke full time. It’s no joke in the evening Like they call it part time.
It was not it was For four years every night. I was studying law and I got very as you can imagine burnt out But I didn’t realize how burnt out I was until my body forced me to rest Forced me to heal through a series of health journeys One of which was eye opening, to say the least, I lost the eyesight in my left eye for a good portion of that, of the year that forced me to rest, gone.
I had a blood clot in the retinal vein between yeah, after the lens. So between the eye and the brain and the clot, the damage created vision impairment so much so that we weren’t sure if my eyesight would come back. And I was. I was diagnosed with low vision. I had to fight in law school for accommodations because I literally couldn’t see the board, what was on the screen.
As I was writing, I needed more time. I needed serious accommodations for my disability that was invisible.
To, to others, that was a life changing initiation into, Hey, if you don’t rest, if you don’t value your recovery, if you don’t value your replenishment, there will be no you to replenish.
No matter when I talk about that experience I always get lost in what that felt like and my resolve to never go back to that time in my life gets stronger. I’ll never forget where I was. I’ll never forget what it felt like to be without vision. I’ll never forget it. A couple years later, it’s like I can recognize the signs when I’m approaching my limits and I dive deep into my, to my tools to support me and support others to, to respect my need for rest.
Monica Packer: Well, enough so that this has become a big part of what you talk about, how, what you help other people do both professionally and personally. I wanted to lean more into the value piece that you brought up, because I think that’s really what people are fighting against when they are getting those signs and those symptoms, which are so often physical, but we can downplay them, you know, and say, Oh, that’s just, it’s just a a stomach ache, or it’s just migraines, or it’s just like my leg going numb, or, you know, things that are pretty serious, like losing your sight we’re pushing and downplaying against those things because of how work is so valued and often so necessary. Right to just keeping up to being able to provide to function. So how can we work against that value? Cause we don’t want to downplay the value of work. Right? So like, how do we better value?
Rest.
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: I’m very happy that you said
to work is also necessary because sometimes necessary to provide for. You’re living and for your needs because sometimes in this conversation, the topic becomes rest at the expense of work. And that’s not what we’re saying. We’re saying also value your rest, knowing you have to produce and work, but wouldn’t you rather do that replenished and energized?
And so then what are the deep assumptions that you have about rest? And how that is devalued, that need to be uncoupled from your actions. And that’s where I would start. Because yes, migraine here, leg numb here, blurred vision. Okay, but look at the cadence of these symptoms. And the time frame over which they’re occurring.
And then observe, not judge. Observe, not evaluate. What’s going on in your life?
And write it down because you can’t hide from what you write. You can switch thoughts really quick. Write them down as they come without any evaluation, with no judgment. What do you see? That’s the first step and it wasn’t until I did that for myself, also that reflection. I do this periodically, probably every quarter at least, so every three months.
I’m like, Okay, what overall have I noticed in the pattern of work, of rest, and of, physical symptoms? So for me, I have to start in the body because that was the sign for me, but there are other ways, other noticings. It depends on how what, how you hear and what works for you to listen to yourself.
Right.
Monica Packer: So there’s this kind of tango we’re doing, right? When we’re trying to better value rest, it’s a whole lot of unlearning, unlearning how we have undervalued rest and then learning what it looks like to value rest, as well as learning from our body, what it actually looks and feels like when we have done too much for too long. And I think those are things that we can take action on. Like you said, it’s just starting with that objective. Observation kind of those lenses, which is really helpful. I’m thinking of the, a lot of the women who are listening are, not working professionally, but they, you know, have a ton of responsibilities.
A lot of them are stay at home. Moms, others are working outside of the home, whatever it may be. And I want them to take what you’re saying and make it more because I think sometimes when you hear the word work, we’re only thinking. Outside. Outside
of the homework, you know?
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: well, I just had a little one and that I know I’m learning intimately the labor Of also taking being a
Monica Packer: Yeah. Yeah. So that’s all I wanted to say. Like, let’s, when you hear the word work, you know, replace it with responsibility. Like, any
labor you are undertaking, period, because there’s always more of it. No matter what it is, no matter what it looks like, there’s always more of it. So I wanted to hear personally from you.
I mean, with both of these being into play with your life right now, what have you unlearned the most about rest and what have you learned the most about rest? And then we can go into some more practical ways for them to do this too.
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: So, working inside the home and outside of the home, I have learned that
no matter how much I might want to make something happen. I might want to show up for the people I love and the people I care for and care with if I am not somewhat sustained energetically. It cannot happen. So for example, I cannot will it to happen. I was very sick last week and I desperately wanted to take my little one to this outdoor nursery school.
I wanted to be with him for hours. I wanted to sit on the dirt. I wanted to sing songs and play games and paint. I rearranged my entire day for those hours to be with him. And when I woke up, I could not. I could not go. I felt so horrible physically, and I knew that if I had gone, I could have gotten other people sick.
And it’s like, there is an analogy of me realizing you can’t will this stuff to happen. When you’ve got to rest, you have to rest and I knew I was feeling it come on. So this is what I unlearned because I was attuned to what was occurring in my body. I didn’t know if it was going to turn into me not being able to take him, but I was starting to feel something a day before I made arrangements just in case.
For someone else who we trust and cares for him to go now in the past, I’d have been like, Oh, no, we’re making it work.
I’m going to do it. I’m going to do it. And even if I have to like stand far away. From the event, I said I was gonna do something.
I’m gonna do it. No matter what. Oh, no matter what. Why?
Monica Packer: A
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: Why? And also not possible.
Monica Packer: whole lot of what comes up too. And I think that’s the thing. Like we get into these cycles of pushing and persevering until there, there, is no why left because we were forced to stop with all those what’s, you know, because they’re going to come up, you ignore it long enough. It’s going to come up. So we’re about to get into a very busy season. Of the year where rest may be one of the last things on people’s minds, especially if they have a whole other layer of responsibilities tacked on to what they already deal with the holiday season coming up. I was wondering if you could give us some practical ways they can incorporate rest, even during this busy season, and I’m just even during it. I think I’m going to just say, like, I bet you’re going to say, especially during this busy season, how can they incorporate rest?
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: So rest can take many forms and can occur during various time periods. So sometimes when people think, oh my gosh rest, I can’t even get five hours of sleep. What do you mean by rest? Well, sleep isn’t the only form of rest. There’s creative rest. Meaning, exploring your, something that invokes a creative sense within you that also is energizing.
There is sensory rest. Maybe you’re looking too much at a screen, many of us are, and you literally need to close your eyes or go outside and interact with nature for maybe 15 minutes. You know, there are these other forms of rest that can occur in micro moments that are especially important when you’re feeling overwhelmed and stretched to the point where you’re overstimulated, especially with someone who has mounting responsibilities in and outside of the home.
Your micro moments of rest are the key for you to. Really keep providing and showing up for people that are look, that are looking to you. And when they see you rest, even at micro moments, the influence on them to then also consider, not just their needs to rest, but them being reminded, Oh, yeah, she needs to rest too.
I’m not sharing enough of the responsibility. I’m not sharing enough of the cognitive load that she has to remember and carry And deliver on for all of us. Maybe I can help out here. I can anticipate. and just do it without being asked.
Monica Packer: that would be nice. Yeah. But I think you’re right though. I don’t mean that facetiously. I think it’s true that when we allow people in, they recognize more of where they can fill the gaps and it takes time, but that can happen over time. So I’m hearing you saying, acknowledge that there are different kinds of rests.
So maybe think about what are you lacking? Like what kind of rest are you lacking right now, which actually might not look like you sitting down or laying down or sleeping. It could actually be getting out or doing something different. Is that right?
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: Absolutely. And I am so inspired and pulling, from my understandings of Sacred Rest, which is a book by Dr. Sondra Dalton Smith. And she shares the seven Types of rest that folks can practice and explore to feel renewed. And there are many more many more forms. So I encourage folks to look into that
Monica Packer: She’s actually been on the podcast, which is so cool that you brought her up. Cause as you were talking about the kinds of breasts, I’m like, I think this is sounding like Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith. And she has a quiz that people, I refer it to people all the time.
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: See,
Monica Packer: check out what rest you need.
But anyway, that’s great. I love that.
So, so identify what rest you’re missing out on. Acknowledge that you can start with micro moments. Okay. Can you give us some examples? Like what does that actually look like? Taking a micro moment?
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: Well, we’ll start with the first one, sensory rest, because a lot of folks need that. We’re looking at screens all day, whether it’s a mini screen, phone, TV, laptop. Close your eyes. And as you close your eyes, follow the sounds that you hear outside of you. Instead of tapping into your inner voice and inner thoughts, because for some of us who might be recovering perfectionists, folks that have a lot of responsibilities, if we close our eyes and tap into that inner voice, The tasks of what we have to do during the day, that will actually not be energizing.
Monica Packer: Yeah. Don’t go there. Yeah.
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: your attention on what’s happening outside of you, what you hear. And that’s a form of, it’s a mindfulness exercise that allows you to get out of the cognitive load that is just spinning and spinning and spinning. in your mind. You can add to this by stepping outside. Some of us live within an area where there, there might be, you know, trees, might be concrete.
You know, I used to live in New York where it’s like, going to a green space is just not a thing at all. So then I would encourage you to go to the place, so either you take a walk within nature, And you place your attention on the sounds outside of you, and research has shown that spending time in nature, you know, a park maybe take off your shoes grounding allows for that opportunity for you to start resting and at least feeling restored.
So, if you can’t do that I used to be a 7th and 8th grade teacher, and I would have. Teacher periods where I would have breaks. I wasn’t near a forest. I taught in the city. I would go to Whole Foods. And I’d go to Whole Foods and that was my place because when I walked in it smelled like flowers and they keep the stores at such a temperature where it’s Not chilly, but it’s not incredibly warm, and it’s just enough to wake up a bit.
And I would go to Whole Foods, and I would just peruse the store, and I would go to the hot bar, and I’d find the most nourishing meal that spoke to me in the moment. And that moment with that food is In and sometimes you just take it to my heart. You all know what it feels like. Just kind of sit in your car in silence.
It’s sometimes it’s all you need and that was replenishing for me. So what I’m breaking down for you all are my noticings of the places and the times and the actions where I feel replenished. I’m not saying go out to Whole Foods and we’re not sponsored by them, by the way, but I am saying you have to recognize.
The places, the times and the actions. When you feel a bit of a glimmer of rest. restoration. And then can you extend those moments and mindfully, planfully engage in them so that you have the recipe for what you need to rest practically.
Monica Packer: And so the goal is to be both reactive, but also proactive, right? Like to, in the moment, recognize, okay, Some symptoms are raging. I recognize that this means I need to rest and here are some of the go to ways I’ve been collecting in my rest tool belt, but we also want to do them proactively. Is that what I’m hearing you say? Don’t just wait.
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: Please don’t please, because then the micro actions might not be
Monica Packer: Yeah. Okay. So what does that look like then? What does it look like to proactively rest? Because we talk a lot about habits here and not because we love them all the time, but because it, you know, it prevents all the, you know, you know what, hitting the fan.
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: I love habit stacking. So I know because I’ve observed. But I have a bit of a, no, let me speak asset based. I know that between 10 a. m. and 12 noon, I’m feeling, it’s like my brain feels like a starburst. It’s just, you know, my analogy of like the starburst candy, like I’m, like it’s just bursting with energy. So, proactively, I understand that. I am going to stack a habit on top of that time period that I realized that I’m very energetic and I could be producing or I could be resting. So what I’m going to do is I’m going to make sure that I reward myself for taking care of myself from 10 to 12. And my reward
is not booking meetings that are physically, emotionally, mentally, and emotionally. Exhausting. So that’s what I do. And then it, then that actually rewards itself because then I feel better. Then I want to do it again. And then I want to be more aware of the places where I’m feeling depleted.
And I want to choose a day and a time to move that meeting, move that conversation so that I can feel more comfortable. Replenish and support it and I might need to prepare so that I can then go into that conversation a version of Yasmene that won’t be depleted. So I love habit stack. So stack those habits and you build the habits that you want to.
stack based on observing where am I feeling drawn in? Where am I feeling energized? Where am I feeling replenished? Let me reward myself with doing more of that or perhaps engaging in those actions back to back. I’m going to be more likely to do it, to honor
Monica Packer: Yeah.
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: because the brain functions, , more so towards reward. rather than
Monica Packer: Yeah, got to make it feel good. But I also love incorporating it as part of your life and not just like, okay, now that I am totally hitting a wall, then I can make time for this because you were forced to do that. So I’m sure in the beginning you had to have kind of an exploratory period where you had to figure out what rest looked like in a regular day to day kind of way. So. I want to keep that in mind as we wrap up with something I remember on Instagram that really hit me. All it was like a post of words and the words said, growing up, I never knew a relaxed woman that really hit me as mean. And, you know, I shared that with a friend And the friend helpfully pointed out, you know, a lot of us don’t have the luxury to be relaxed. And that is true. You know, that is true. We even talked, you know, you talked about that at the beginning. That’s true systemically in many ways and places. So I still want to speak to the woman who that’s hitting though, where they can recognize that’s right. I’ve never been relaxed or I’ve never seen a relaxed woman. What does that even look like? And what can it feel like?
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: You know, as I hear you say that, I wouldn’t even say that I’m relaxed. All the work that I’m doing, I’m, I still have not worked.
Monica Packer: You’re a work in progress with
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: I’m still saying work, the word work, like, yeah,
I still haven’t, Experienced being a relaxed, feeling like a relaxed woman . I don’t even know what that would feel like.
I’m not, I haven’t experienced it yet. I have seen and experienced moments of relaxation, of replenishment. I keep going to the word replenishment.
Monica Packer: That’s a good word for it though. I think maybe we almost, we should just replace it. Like, what does it look and feel like to be a rested woman? What does that look like? Because maybe relax is too far. Like maybe that’s not even possible for a lot of our personalities or our situations, our circumstances are in.
So let’s paint the picture with the word rest then. What does that look like? What does that feel like?
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: Oh yeah, it’s funny. I had a conversation a couple years ago, and I remember I titled it IG Live A Life Well Rested. Like, what does it mean to create a life well rested? And for me, I’m a writer. I’m creative. So I have to have space. Sometime in the month. To write. I’m not saying every day, because that’s not necessarily possible, at least right now in my season of life, but I have to have space for that, because then I know that when I come up, because I’ve practiced and I’ve observed, I come out more rested and more available.
For other people and also to be available for myself instead of just going so numb and oversaturated with, responsibility that I don’t really feel much, you know, to get out of that numbing sensation, writing jolts me out of it. Spending particular moments of time with people who bring out the best in me because you gotta also look at your relationships and where engaging with folks feels depleting.
Monica Packer: That’s a toughie.
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: Yes, and so if you’re coming out of conversations Notice no judgment. No evaluation. You’re coming out of conversations feeling depleted Instead of nourished sustained replenished. It’s gonna be hard to feel rested.
Monica Packer: Now that’s something to really pay attention to this holiday season. I’m sure you’ll have plenty of opportunity for that in ways that are both good and hard ways that are both good and enlightening. And that’s what I hope they can take from this conversation is the goal is to not, is it, you know, this is what we do as recovering perfectionists.
We think like, well, if I rest, then that means it’s like all or nothing. So it’s like, I don’t value work or I’m, if I rest, I’m lazy or we shouldn’t work at all. Like it’s, no, it’s. Make it part of your life and also respond to the signals that you’re getting when it’s time to really take those moments to, to, rest. Well, I want to ask you a curiosity question and then where people can find you. And then we always wrap up with our final question of the episode. So my curiosity question is. What’s your favorite way to rest beyond, I mean, you talked about writing but what’s your favorite way beyond that?
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: I love traveling I love exploring new places. I like feeling outside of my routine And whether that’s a day trip, a weekend, or an actual vacation, like that is my favorite way to rest and replenish is to get outside of my routine and myself and explore and experience other ways of living.
Monica Packer: I love that. All right. Let’s hear where people should go if they want to learn more from you and to connect with you. Yes. I mean,
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: Oh, yes. Well, the easiest place is to sign up for my email list at my website, www. Yasmeneemumby. com. It’ll be in the show notes. I spell my name. There you can also follow me on Instagram. I post occasionally. And if you do, if you’re so moved to want to work together, partner together, I have opportunities for coaching and workshops and would love to connect with you in that way if you are also interested.
Monica Packer: fantastic. Yep. We will definitely link to those things in the show notes. And we always end with this question and it’s because we always learn so much from our guests and we want to leave feeling some hope, like we can take some action today. So even though we’ve talked about a lot of things today, what is one small way to Listeners can take action on what they learned.
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: Oh, you can right now, as you hear my voice, close your eyes, breathe in through your nose for three,
one, sigh out for three.
And when you feel a bit of that tense anxiety energetically that might be a little more than what you want to hold at that moment, you can always go back to that mini breath work that we just did together. And if you want more of those meditations, they’re there on my website for you.
Monica Packer: Well, Dr. Mumby, this has been a fantastic conversation. I appreciate you and your time so much.
Dr. Yasmene Mumby: Well, thank you for having me and I’ve enjoyed our time.
Monica Packer: You probably saw me smile a few times. It’s because I could hear.
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